Chris Collard #ASPWTheNextJourney

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TRANSCRIPT

Program announcement (00:00):

Welcome to the Next Journey, the Adventure Travel Podcast. With me, Andrew St Pierre White. 

Time stamp includes pre-roll

Andrew (01:02.958)

Good day to you and welcome to the Next Adventure podcast. My special guest is all the way in California and of course I am in Western Australia in Perth. Hello, Chris Collard, how are you today? Great, Andrew, thanks for having me on the show. I…

Chris Collard (01:24.366)

Great, Andrew. Thanks for having me on the show.

Andrew (01:29.018)

My inspiration, I should introduce you to my audience, my inspiration of giving you a call and asking you to do this was really based on your LinkedIn picture, where you are kneeling down, holding a long lens under the belly of a Russian transport to you 134, I think it was aircraft, and in Antarctica.

Chris Collard (01:55.212)

That’s correct, yeah.

Andrew (01:56.502)

That was why I thought I’d give you the call. Tell us about yourself. You know that was all smoke and mirrors my friend. Oh AI. That’s the trouble nowadays. You don’t know if it’s real. Well that was obviously real. Tell us about that particular, I mean you’re an adventure travel broadcaster and you have a long and illustrious career.

Chris Collard (02:00.66)

You know, that was all smoke and mirrors, my friend. Yeah. All AI.

Andrew (02:24.166)

Unlike me, where I do most of my work for my own media, you do work for many media channels and are in high demand, I understand. Tell us about yourself and perhaps one or two of the most interesting journalistic encounters you’ve had in your long career.

Chris Collard (02:45.004)

Well, that’s an interesting subject. We’re gonna cut right there, I’m sorry. I had my windows open and we live near a train track and you’re probably getting it. Yeah, I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna, that’s why I waited for a pregnant pause there. Let me just close this thing.

Andrew (02:46.666)

Well, that’s an interesting subject. We’re going to cut right there. I’m sorry. I have my windows open and we live near a train track. It’s not a problem. You can close them. I can just cut out the gaps. It really doesn’t. I’ll just leave it. I’ll leave it recording. Sort it out. Yeah. Pregnant pause there. No problem. Close this thing.

Andrew (03:14.786)

Hello and welcome to the adventure travel podcast and the next journey. I am Anderson Peelwhite.

Chris Collard (03:24.756)

Alright in fact sorry about that. We live up in the Sierra Nevadas and we’ve got the railway that heads east and west and they’re about a half a mile or a third of a mile on either side of us. Okay you just asked me about um so I’ll just pick up where you left off. How’s that?

Andrew (03:26.274)

Sorry about that. Not at all. Sierra Nevadas and we’ve got the railway that it’s east and west and they’re about a half a mile or third of a mile on either side of us. OK, you just asked me about.

So I’ll just pick up where you left off. Yes, any of your, your revenge is perhaps start with the Antarctica one, but some of the more interesting things in your career. You know, Andrew, I’ve been really, really lucky. I have actually been across like all seven continents, but I left a 17 year job working with UPS to like jump off a bridge 20 something years ago. And

Chris Collard (03:56.148)

You know, Andrew, I’ve been really, really lucky. I have actually been across like all seven continents, but I left a 17 year job working with UPS to like jump off a bridge 20 something years ago. And I had no choice but to make it work because I really didn’t have a parachute when I jumped off. So yeah, the answer to your question was it was part of the expedition seven.

Andrew (04:13.138)

I had no choice but to make it work because I really didn’t have a parachute when I jumped off. So yeah, the answer to your question was it was part of the Expedition 7 project which was driving the same length cruiser around the world. Antarctica, the cruiser actually made it there but that project was…

Chris Collard (04:25.112)

project, which was driving the same land cruiser around the world. Um, and Arctic, uh, the cruiser actually made it there, but that project was going from Nova, which is the Russian air base on the Eastern hemisphere south of Cape town. So we flew out of Cape town and, uh, driving all the way to the South pole. Um, the goal, if we made it to the South pole on time, you know, with enough time, because we had to get back to Nova, it was a double crossing, it was.

Andrew (04:37.026)

Going from Novo, which is the Russian airbase on the Eastern Hemisphere, south of Cape Town. So we fly to Cape Town and driving all the way to South Pole. The goal.

Chris Collard (04:54.424)

to the South Pole and back, or to the South Pole and the Ross Ice Shelf and back. But if we had enough time, we were gonna do the whole thing. But there was only one flight off the continent and we had to be on it. So it was really kind of a push once we decided, it’s like, okay, we’re gonna shoot for the Ross Ice Shelf. But great project. It was with a guy named Greg Miller. And of course, Scott Brady, who was my publisher at the time at Overland Journal.

Andrew (04:56.194)

back or to the South Pole and the Ross Ice Shelf and back. But if we had enough time, we’re going to be the whole thing. But there’s only one flight.

off the continent and we had to be on it. So it was really kind of a push once we decided it’s like okay we’re gonna achieve for the you know for the last ice shelf. But great project it was with getting Greg Miller and of course Scott Brady who was my publisher at the time at the Royal End Journal and I think easily who was from Arctic Trucks. So definitely a highlight of the projects that I’ve been involved with.

Chris Collard (05:23.76)

And I got him easily who was from Arctic trucks. So definitely a highlight of You know the projects that I’ve been involved with Just truly spectacular place. I mean Yeah, you get up on the plateau and it’s like the surface of the moon

Andrew (05:35.012)

Truly spectacular place. I mean, yeah. Yeah. On a plateau and it’s like the surface of the moon. Right. Did you do the full circuit with Expedition 7 or just that section? You know, I did not. I was running the magazine at the time and it was kind of a one-man show. So I just simply did not have time. I was invited to go on a number of the other legs, which would have been great.

Chris Collard (05:48.572)

You know, I did not. I was running the magazine at the time and it was kind of a one-man show. So I just simply did not have time. I was invited to go on a number of the other legs, which would have been great. I had traveled a lot of those places already, but it was more of just bandwidth. And you know, my commitment to, I mean, it took almost a month to do the Antarctica leg. And yeah.

Andrew (06:05.386)

I’ve traveled a lot of those places already, but it was more of just bandwidth. And my commitment to, I mean, it took almost a month to do the Antarctica leg. And yeah, so you know how it is. You got 130 pages, you got to fill in. Yeah. So that was my target when they started the project.

Chris Collard (06:17.46)

So you know how it is, you got 130 pages you got to fill. And so I was, I was, that was, that was my target when they started the project. You know, the Africa, they went through Southern Africa and I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Southern Africa, I’ve been to Australia 10 or more times and done most of the, you know, all the sections that they were going to do. So Antarctica was the target and it was, it was worth it. It was cold.

Andrew (06:30.298)

Africa, they went through Southern Africa and I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Southern Africa. I’ve been to Australia 10 or more times and done most of the, you know, all the sections that they were going to do. So, an archipelago was the target and it was worth it. It was cold. Especially, I mean, I hadn’t camped in 40, you know, minus 40 temperatures before. But we had really good gear.

Chris Collard (06:47.164)

Especially, I mean, I hadn’t camped in minus 40 temperatures before, but we had really good gear and a good team and it was just one heck of a trip. Yeah. 24-7 daylight.

Andrew (06:59.592)

good team and it was just one heck of a trip. Yeah. Fantastic. It was a fabulous endeavor and I followed it through their various media channels and of course went to see last couple of months ago, two months ago, went to see the actual vehicles in the museum. Tell me about your

your expedition travel and racing history. You’ve done a lot of work with the Badger events. Tell me about that. Yeah, I have. You know, when I started, Andrew, with my what I call rookie journalism, and I still do, that’s actually my tagline on a couple of social media outlets, rookie journalists. I started covering events and I realized like, okay, there’s

Chris Collard (07:32.012)

Um, yeah, I have, you know, when I started Andrew with my, what I call rookie journalism, uh, and I still do. That’s actually my tagline on a couple of, um, social media outlets, rookie journalist. Um, I started covering events and I realized like, okay, there’s, um, you know, there’s some really cool stuff going on around the world. I’ve seen some of it, you know, in the magazines and I need to go cover it. So my first one was the Outback Challenge, uh, in your neck of the woods out in Broken Hill.

Andrew (07:49.858)

You know, there’s some really cool stuff going on around the world. I’ve seen some of it, you know, in the magazines and I need to go cover it. So my first one was the Outback Challenge in your neck of what’s out in Broken Hill. Right. And I had spent the previous three or four years, I bumped into a Russian, editor of a Russian magazine, Off-Road Magazine and the SEMA show. And I, I apologize. And he goes, oh, okay. I, I.

Chris Collard (08:00.612)

And I had spent the previous three or four years, I bumped into an editor of a Russian magazine, Off-Road Magazine, at the SEMA show. And I apologize. And he goes, oh, okay. I, it’s okay. And I said, where are you from? You know, he says, Andre, Off-Road Magazine, Moscow.

Andrew (08:19.912)

It’s okay. And I said, where are you from? Uh, he says, uh, onto the, uh, off-road magazine, muskow

Chris Collard (08:27.364)

And it just clicked on a light bulb for me. And I realized like, wow, I’ve been busting my tail, selling an article to one US magazine, and there’s going to be an outlet like in dozens of countries that might be interested in non-competing markets, different language. And I spent quite a bit of time tracking those down. So by the time I hit my first event in Australia, I was able to get it out to seven or eight international publications. And that kind of helped.

Andrew (08:27.942)

And it just clicked on the light bulb for me. And I realized like, wow, I’ve been busting my tail, selling an article to one US magazine. And there’s going to be an outlet, like in dozens of countries that might be interested, non-competing markets, different language. And I spent quite a bit of time tracking those down. So by the time I hit my first event in Australia, I was able to get it out to seven or eight international publications.

Chris Collard (08:57.undefined)

springboard me to the next one. Like when I contacted the next event promoter and they don’t know who you are, I was like, hey, how you doing? I’m Chris, you know, this is kind of what I do. And I love to attend your event. So it kind of snowballed after that. It was a super exciting time for me.

Andrew (08:57.936)

bored me to the next one like when I contacted the next event promoter and they don’t know who you are I was like hey how you doing I’m Chris you know this is kind of what I do and I’d love to attend your event so it kind of kind of snowballed after that it’s pretty it was a super exciting time for me. Right and how long ago was it that you

left Overland Journal? Okay, because I met you in right When I met you at the I was doing Carries carry on When I met you at the BFG Km3 launch were you with them or had you just left Journal?

Chris Collard (09:28.476)

I left, well, let’s see, I was, technically it was 2018. So I was a contract editor.

Yeah, so I was doing… I’m sorry, go ahead.

Chris Collard (09:51.012)

I’m trying to remember what year that was. 2019, 2018. Yeah, I was on my way out. It was just kind of a slow separation. But yeah, I was on my way out. So I was a contract editor. I actually met Scott Brady, who’s the publisher. I had done a three-part series on Mexico around 2002 or 2003. And he was a subscriber to the magazine. I guess he wrote the editor.

Andrew (09:53.778)

18. 2019, 2018. 18. Yeah, I was on my way out. It was just kind of a slow separation. But yeah, I was on my way out. So I was a contract editor. I actually met.

Scott Brady, who’s the publisher, I had done a three part series on Mexico around 2002 or 2003. And he was a subscriber to the magazine, I guess he wrote the editor, if I remember correctly, he wrote the editor, and the editor forwarded it to me. And it was just like, hey, that was an awesome thing. And so I called, I called the guy, I’m just glad to be nice to call the guy. And he introduced himself, and he’s like, I’m really excited about

Chris Collard (10:20.44)

If I remember correctly, he wrote the editor and the editor forwarded it to me. And it was just like, Hey, that was an awesome thing. And so I called, I called the guy. I didn’t know what it was. I’ve just thought it’d be nice to call the guy and, uh, you know, he introduced himself and he’s like, I’m really excited about getting into this whole Overland thing. And he, of course, you know, he’s a subscriber and I’m like, okay, that’s awesome. Cool. It’s great. It’s fun. Um, and then, you know, you know, we touched bases a few times at events.

Andrew (10:39.576)

overland thing and he of course, you know, he’s a subscriber and I’m like, okay, that’s awesome, cool, it’s great, it’s fun. And then, you know, we touched bases a few times at events and he called me in 2005 and he said, hey, I’m starting this thing called Expedition Portal. And I was like, great, that’s awesome.

Chris Collard (10:50.744)

And he called me in 2005 and he said, hey, I’m starting this thing called Expedition Portal. And I was like, great, that’s awesome. A couple of years later, he called again, ran into him at the SEMA show and I think, and he’s like, he’s like, hey, I’m starting this magazine. It’s gonna be really cool. And this was right at the time that the US magazines, it was Prime Media, I think had been sold and they just canceled about 10 labels.

Andrew (11:03.022)

A couple years later, he called again, ran into a SEMA show and he said, Kim, start this magazine. It’s going to be really cool. And this was right at the time that the US magazine, it was Prime Media, I think it had been sold, and they just canceled about 10 labels, 10 books, and fired a bunch of people. And I was like, yeah, great time for magazine, buddy. And he’s like, that’s OK. It’s going to be completely different. And I’m like, awesome.

Chris Collard (11:19.356)

10 books and fired a bunch of people. And I was like, you know, it’s pretty tough time for magazine buddy. And he’s like, that’s okay. It’s going to be, it’s going to be completely different. And I’m like, I’m like, awesome. And he said, can you send me 60 bucks for a subscription? And I was like, sure. And then, um, he had, I had done a couple of articles for him.

Andrew (11:32.656)

Can you send me 60 bucks for a subscription? I was like, sure, all right.

And then I had done a couple articles for him. And then he contacted me. Actually, I was at the Stema Show again around 2010. He said, you know, there’s going to be some changes in the magazine and asked if I was interested in, you know, taking over as the editor. So, you know, and that was, it was fun. It was a good chapter. I mean, it had its roller coaster rides. But, you know, it had always been on the contributing side.

Chris Collard (11:41.776)

Um, and then he contacted me, actually it was at the steamer show again, around in 2010, he said, you know, there’s going to be some changes in the magazine and, and asked if I was interested in, you know, taking over as the editor. Um, so, you know, and that was, it was fun. It was a good chapter. I mean, had it’s, uh, had Swirly coaster rides, but, um, you know, I’d always been on the contributing side, um, for.

tons of different publishers publications. Early on, I was doing stuff for National Geographic Adventure and Cigar, Fishing and Auto, anybody that would publish my stuff. And it was almost all automotive related. So what I told them, I was like, I would do a lot of commercial photography. And I mean, I’ll be a contract editor, but I didn’t want to be a W-2, because when you’re W-2, they own everything you do. And I have always maintained that.

Andrew (12:07.042)

for tons of different publications. Early on I was doing stuff for National Geographic Adventure and Cigar Pistilnado, anybody that would publish my stuff. And it was almost all automotive related. So what I told them, I said, I do a lot of commercial photography and I mean, I’ll be a contract editor, but I didn’t wanna be a W-2 because when you’re W-2, they own everything you do. And I’m like.

I’ve always maintained that if I shoot it, I own it. Or if I write it, I own it. But it was good. Yeah, that was it. I loved working with the contributors, and some of them were so inspiring. And you know some of these folks that have been traveling for years. And I would bump into them or find out about them. I’m like, hey, you’ve got to write something for me. I mean, you’re a legitimate, real deal.

Chris Collard (12:35.016)

If I shoot it, I own it. Or if I write it, I own it. Um, but it was good. Yeah. That was a, um, I loved working with the, you know, contributors and some of them were so inspiring. And you know, some of the, you know, some of these folks that, um, have been traveling for years and I would bump into them or find out about them. And I’m like, Hey, you gotta write something for me. I mean, you’re legitimate real deal. Um, you know, I, I use the word.

Andrew (13:02.636)

I use the word expedition extremely lightly because I think it’s way overused in this world. It is. But these guys were legit. They’re crossing all parts of Africa, East Africa, the DRC, the Congo, the darkest areas of the world. And I’m like Dan Grek, who you probably know. I’m like, it was, yeah, these guys inspired me, even though I was supposed to be reading this magazine and inspiring other people.

Chris Collard (13:03.536)

expedition extremely lightly because I think it’s way overused in this world. But these guys were legit. They’re crossing all parts of Africa, East Africa, the DRC, the Congo, the darkest areas of the world. Like Dan Grek, who you probably know. These guys inspired me, even though I was supposed to be writing this magazine and

Chris Collard (13:32.498)

They were one of the highlights of that chapter.

Andrew (13:32.776)

They were one of the highlights of that chapter. Right. How have you seen the overlanding scene change in terms of the journalistic work that you’re doing and overall? Because obviously it’s grown, the market has grown massively, particularly in the US. But how do you see the change of having evolved over the last, say, 10 or so years?

Chris Collard (13:55.521)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Collard (14:03.456)

Good question. Some of the changes that I’ve seen are that I think that the manufacturing world and this is just kind of what I see from everyone. I was at the Journal or some of the other US magazines like Wheels of Field or Tread or OVR is that the overland term that people are not off-roaders and I think you might know Gary and Monica Westcott of the Turtle Expedition.

Andrew (14:04.434)

Good question. Some of the changes that I’ve seen are that I think that the manufacturing world, and this is kind of what I see from you when I was at the journal or some of the other US magazines like Wheels Field or Tread or OVR, is that the overland term.

The people are not off-roaders, and I think you might know Gary Monaco West got on the Turtle Expedition. They were doing, they were my idols, they were doing this stuff back in the 70s and the 80s, and I couldn’t wait to get the magazine and figure out where Turtle Expedition was going. But they insisted, like, we’re not off-roaders.

Chris Collard (14:31.048)

They were doing, they were my idols. They were doing this stuff back in the seventies and the eighties. And I couldn’t wait to get the magazine and, and like figure out where a turtle expedition was going. Um, but they insisted like, we’re not off-roaders. You know, they’ve been all over the world, but it’s like, we’re not off-roaders, we’re just like adventuring and going places and that we have four wheel drive is the way that we do it. Um, and from the manufacturing industry side, um, the

Andrew (14:45.29)

You know, we’ve been all over the world, but at Psychonauti Ferris, we just like adventuring and going places and that we have four wheel drive is the way that we do it. And from the manufacturing industry side, the idea of say overlanding.

Chris Collard (14:59.448)

idea of say overlanding, it hits a much broader demographic, much broader interest base. Because it not only covers a lot of people that consider themselves four wheelers, but it also covers people that might be, you name it. In the States, I would say in the Sierra Club, which is kind of an anti-access group, but it’s like all of them have four wheel drives and they’re all getting…

Andrew (15:03.95)

It hits a much broader demographic, much broader interest base, because it not only covers a lot of people that consider themselves four-wheelers, but it also covers people that might be…

you name it. In the states, I would say in the Sierra Club, which is kind of an anti access group, but it’s like all of them have four wheel drives, and they’re all getting rooftop tents, and it’s a huge organization. So from a marketing standpoint, it’s, I think it’s been pretty amazing because so many people it looks, it’s aspirational, the idea of, you know, heading off across the Nevada desert or across the Australian outback, you know, with, I would say a map and a

Chris Collard (15:26.848)

getting rooftop tents and it’s a huge organization. So from a marketing standpoint, it’s I think it’s been pretty amazing because so many people, it looks, it’s aspirational. The idea of, you know, heading off across the Nevada desert or across the Australian outback, you know, with I would say a map and a compass, but now they sort out like logistical plans and tactical plans and all kinds of stuff like that. Tactical meal plans, that’s my favorite.

Andrew (15:50.008)

sort of like logistical plans and tactical plans and all kinds of stuff like that. Yeah. Tactical meal plans. That’s my favorite. Cap, do you say that again? Captain and to Neil plans. Is that what you said? Captain and to Neil plans. No, tactical meal plans. It’s going to say I’m not sure I understand the link. Right. Yes. Sorry.

Chris Collard (15:56.344)

Um, it’s like, I just stop when I’m hungry and I eat, uh, captain and to Neil plans, no, uh, tactical meal plans. I’m sorry. Uh, so from that side, I think it’s amazing. I mean, the industry has just exploded and I think it has, you know, it still has a ways to go. I think it’s, it’s gained a lot of traction, but I think that.

Andrew (16:15.086)

So from that side, I think it’s amazing. The industry has just exploded. And I think it still has a ways to go. I think it’s gained a lot of traction. But I think that it’s going to be, I would guess, the continually growing sector of the automotive enthusiast markets. But some of the things have changed. And I’m sure that you see it is that.

Chris Collard (16:25.676)

It’s going to be, I would guess, a continually growing sector of the automotive enthusiast markets. But some of the things have changed, and I’m sure that you see it, is that the idea has become more gear-centric than go-and-do-it-centric. People spend so much time setting their rig up and thinking that…

Andrew (16:43.278)

The idea has become more gear centric than go and do it centric. People spend so much time setting their rig up, thinking that it’s like, I’ve got to have this, I’ve got to have that, I’ve got to have this, I’ve got to have that, it’s all got to be perfect. And then I’m going to have a scheduled time when everybody goes to the bathroom. And then where we have to be this place and where we have to be that place. And I think it’s lost some of what I…

Chris Collard (16:53.016)

And it’s like, I’ve got to have this and I got to have that and I got to have this. I got to have that. It’s all got to be perfect. And then I’m going to have a scheduled time when everybody goes to the bathroom and then where we have to be this place and where we have to be that place. And I think it’s lost some of what I have always felt is you can call it overlanding now, but, um, you know, just the sense of adventure, which is when you come to the fork in the road, you know, take it left or right. It doesn’t matter. Or.

Andrew (17:11.558)

I’ve always felt is, you can call it overlanding now, but, you know, just a sense of adventure, which is when you come to the Fork and Road, you know, take it left or right, it doesn’t matter. Or if you’re in a little village in, you know, South Iwanga in Zambia, and somebody says, Oh, you should go see this waterfall. You know, to have the mental flexibility to say, I should go do that. I want to go down to Lake Carriba. I heard that there’s like a guy down there with a boat that will take you fishing.

Chris Collard (17:21.148)

If you’re in a little village in South Iwanga in Zambia and somebody says, oh, you should go see this waterfall. You know, to have the mental flexibility to just say, I should go do that. I want to go down to Lake Kuriba. I heard that there’s like a guy down there with a boat that will take you fishing, you know, in a dugout canoe. So it’s the, I think it’s lost a little bit of that spontaneity with a lot of people.

Andrew (17:41.452)

I think it’s lost a little bit of that spontaneity with a lot of people. The way I agree with you, and I think one of the problems is that there are so many people that spend so little time and have so little time to actually do trips that they live almost vicariously.

by buying kit, by planning and planning and replanning and replanning and replanning and feel as if they’re actually doing overlanding, it gives them a certain sense of accomplishment. Even though they’re actually doing overlanding because, well, a proper overland trip in the term that you and I would call overlanding is something that at the very least was probably a week, you know, at the very minimum. But

So few people get a chance to do that long term take three four weeks and do some do a Expedition where you can actually call it an expedition so they fill their time up with Buying kit and I don’t Understand where you’re coming from. I kind of don’t blame them for it And I suppose it feeds the industry because the more kit

The more advertisers want to advertise and they want to more advertise, more publications get some of their cash to publicize those parts, those components, those accessories. And so the industry is growing not because of actually people doing the trips. It’s growing because people are buying stuff.

Chris Collard (19:00.62)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Collard (19:11.976)

Yeah. And honestly, Andrew, it’s like, especially as the editor of the journal, um, you know, I go to Overland Expo or I talk to people and they would, you know, they’re super excited and they’ve got everything. And I’ve had people tell me, it’s like, I haven’t bought, I haven’t bought one thing that you didn’t endorse. And that puts a lot of weight from a total standpoint, huge amount of weight. I mean, I’ve always been no gloves on reviews. You know, I work hard for my money. And although we get a lot of

Andrew (19:13.923)

Yeah, and obviously Andrew, especially as the editor of the journal, I go to Overland Expo where I talk to people and they’re super excited and they’ve got everything and I’ve had people tell me, I haven’t bought one thing that you didn’t have to.

And that puts a lot of weight. From an initial standpoint, huge amount of weight. I mean, I’ve always been wearing gloves on reviews. I work hard for my money. And although we get a lot of gear in this industry, it’s like I buy stuff too. It’s like people work hard for their money. You don’t mislead them. But I’ll talk to people and they’ve got everything. And I have heard people kind of trash talk, the Overlanders that have all this stuff. I’m excited for them. I think it’s great because they’re having fun

Chris Collard (19:40.056)

gear in this industry. It’s like I buy stuff too. It’s like, you know, it’s people work hard for the money. Don’t mislead them, but I’ll talk to people and they’ve got everything. And you know, I’ve have heard people kind of, kind of trash talk, you know, the overlanders that have all this stuff. I’m excited for them. I think it’s great because they’re having fun and it’s, you know, as much fun sometime putting your, all your kit together, all your gear together and get ready and getting ready and doing the planning and

Andrew (19:59.689)

It’s, you know, as much fun sometimes.

putting all your kit together, all your gear together, and getting ready and doing the planning, and as it is, actually being there. So I mean, it’s become super gear-centric, but it’s also become, that part of it has become like people’s hobby to get ready for the trip that they’re gonna do. So I’m happy, I think it’s great. I’m glad that those folks are out there and gravitate towards.

Chris Collard (20:08.192)

as it is actually being there. So, I mean, it’s become super gear-centric, but it’s also become, that part of it has become like people’s hobby to get ready for the trip that they’re gonna do. So I’m happy, you know, I think it’s great. I’m glad that those folks are out there and gravitate towards kind of doing what we do, even if it’s a shorter period of time sometimes.

Andrew (20:31.522)

kind of doing what we do, even if it’s a shorter period of time, sometimes. And, you know, one of my…

Chris Collard (20:37.644)

You know, one of my greatest rewards in this business is when I meet somebody and they’re like, I read this thing that you wrote and it really motivated me to like go there or do thing or put that on my bucket list. It’s so it’s to me, that’s rewarding. It’s that I always endeavored to put the reader or the viewer in the vehicle, you know, in the situation and environment with me, whether I’m hiding behind a termite mound trying to hide from an elephant or.

Andrew (20:40.834)

greatest rewards in this business is when I meet somebody and they’re like, I read this thing that you wrote and it really motivated me to go there or do thing or put that on my bucket list. So it’s to me that’s rewarding is that I always endeavor to put the reader or the viewer in the vehicle, in the situation, in the environment with me, whether I’m hiding behind a termite mound, trying to hide from an elephant or driving across

Chris Collard (21:07.224)

you know, driving across the Simpson Desert, whatever that happens to be. So that’s the rewarding part. And I think, you know, back to your question on the industry, I mean, I think it’s an exciting time for a lot of people and it has generated a lot of creativity from the gear side. And a lot of stuff that looks the same, but every once in a while I’ll see something, I’m like, that’s a really good idea. I could use that.

Andrew (21:10.808)

whatever that happens. Yeah, yeah. So that’s the rewarding part. And I think, back to your question on the industry, I think it’s an exciting time for a lot of people and it has generated a lot of creativity from the gear side and a lot of stuff looks the same, but every once in a while I see someone like, that’s a really good idea, I could use that.

Chris Collard (21:35.596)

So innovation, yeah.

Andrew (21:38.098)

So innovation, yeah. Your articles, do you have any way of measuring the popularity of your articles? Because you, like me, will do an article on some gear, some equipment, some application of a piece of accessory. And then you will do an event, which is a traveling event, an overlanding event. Which of those do you know are more popular for the magazines, the readers? Any ideas?

Chris Collard (22:02.396)

You know what, that’s a really hard thing to quantify. Uh, cause a lot of times you don’t, you don’t get that feedback. I mean, obviously if it’s in a digital format, you can, you can dig up those analytics. If it’s on YouTube, you can dig up those analytics. Um, but you know, from the print magazine world, and even if it’s digitized, if they’re, you know, the outlets you’re working with, they’re doing both. It’s, it’s kind of hard to tell. I know what I, I know what I gravitate towards the adventure stuff.

Andrew (22:03.458)

You know what, that’s a really hard thing to quantify. Because a lot of times you don’t get that feedback. I mean, obviously if it’s in a digital format, you can dig up those analytics. If it’s on YouTube, you can dig up those analytics.

But, you know, in the print magazine world, and even if it’s digitized, if the outlets you’re working with are doing both, it’s kind of hard to tell. Right. Yes. I know what I gravitate towards, the adventure stuff. I know. Absolutely. But, you know, I get I get complaints all of the time. Oh, you’re not doing enough trips. And I say to them, I’ve just done three.

I don’t understand what you’re talking about. And it turns out what, of course, they’re on YouTube. So YouTube says, oh, the algorithm says, you like the kit stuff. So we’ll send you more kit stuff. When Andrew does something in the wilderness, well, we might not necessarily show that to you because we know you like the kit stuff. And I have to say to them, are you watching all of the videos or some of the videos? And generally, people are more interested in kit than…

Chris Collard (22:54.835)

Mm-hmm.

Andrew (23:13.326)

trips. And I’m not sure why, but that is, if I look at pure demographic, if I do a build vehicle, a vehicle build over a year, and I’ll do say 15 videos, I’ll have within six months I’ll have a million views. But if I do a trip, which is very expensive, so much fun and far more fun than the trip stuff, I’ll get half a million in two years.

That’s the difference. And that’s I find frustrating. So, but Yeah, no, because we want to do more trips, because they’re fine. So you have to you know, you, we like not unlike the people actually using the buying accessories, we collect our accessories and we plan and then we go into a trip. The trip is actually what it’s all about. And that’s our favorite content.

Chris Collard (23:47.86)

Yeah, no. Yeah, no, because we want to do more trips, because they’re fun.

Andrew (24:10.006)

but at the same time to feed that content, we do the kit stuff and we keep all the accessory manufacturers happy. And you’re absolutely right. Dollars are hard won. If you because you like me, we get some sponsorship of some, but we get kit given to us. We don’t get money. We get some. Please put this on your show in your article and

And sometimes they’ll say, yes, we’ll put this a piece of equipment on your vehicle, but please don’t criticize it. And that’s the moment I say, no deal. That’s no deal, boy. I’ll buy it. I appreciate that. You know, I think you’re the same and your articles are fairly, not overly critical, but not, they don’t appear to be pandering.

Chris Collard (24:44.862)

I appreciate that.

Chris Collard (24:58.028)

You know, I appreciate you saying that Andrew. I mean, that’s a huge, as you know, that’s a huge issue in our industry is that, um, you know, advertisers say whether it’s digital or if it’s print, they’re going to get ink or real estate in the magazine, or they’re going to get promised to cover. I mean, I had a conversation with somebody recently that was asking me if I would review a product and, you know, said that they were really hoping, actually they wanted me to do a product in a test and they were hoping that they would come out on top of that test and maybe get a cover.

Andrew (24:59.05)

No, I appreciate you saying that Andrew. I mean, that’s a huge, if you know, that’s a huge issue in our industry is that, you know.

advertisers, whether it’s digital or if it’s print, they’re going to get ink or real estate in the magazine, or they’re going to get promised to cover. I mean, I had a conversation with somebody recently that was asking if I would review a product, and said that they were really hoping. Actually, they wanted me to do a product in a test, and they were hoping that they would come out on top of that test, maybe get a cover. I honestly said, do you get the wrong guy? It’s not how I work.

Chris Collard (25:27.404)

And I honestly said, um, you got the wrong guy. I don’t, it’s not how I work. I said, I’ve done tons of gear tests. I, you know, very fairly industry standard gear test, whether it’s LED lights. Um, had a friend that his business was creating surgical and cardio headlamps. So it’s like, let me use their whole lab to test head to head, uh, LED headlights and then flashlights and then headlamps. So it’s like, these are like people, you know,

Andrew (25:34.892)

test, you know, very fairly industry standard view test, whether it’s LED lights, had a friend that his business was creating surgical and cardio headlamps. So like, let me use their whole lab test head to head LED headlights, and then flashlights and then headlamps. So it’s like these are like, people, you know, in the industry would look at that and they’re like, Holy crap, you cannot argue with the data. I just tested solar panels. I went to

Chris Collard (25:57.008)

In the industry, we look at that and they’re like, holy crap. You cannot argue with the data. I just tested solar panels. I went to Merlin labs in San Jose, California with seven different manufacturers products. And Merlin’s were in there as well, but they let me use their lab and whatever goes into the test goes in and what are the results, the results are. That’s just the way they are. So it’s, uh, can be unpopular with advertisers.

Andrew (26:04.752)

California with seven different manufacturers products. And Merlin’s were in there as well, but they let me use their lab and whatever goes into the test goes in and what are the results, the results are, that’s just the way they are. So it’s, it can be unpopular with advertisers, but it’s like you gotta hold your own and you gotta maintain your ethics, whatever those ethics are. But let’s not say it’s like,

Chris Collard (26:24.404)

But it’s like you got to hold your own and you got to maintain your ethics whatever those ethics are So but that’s not to say it’s like if you’ve got products you love whether you love a particular brand of tire or winch And you have a partnership with those folks. I don’t I don’t call them sponsorships. I call them partnerships because you know sponsors getting something for nothing and And in my opinion this business is like there’s nothing is free

Andrew (26:34.852)

you love whether you love a particular brand of tire or winch and you have a partnership with those folks i don’t i don’t call them sponsorships i call them partnerships because yes sponsors getting something for nothing and in my opinion this business like there’s nothing is free my camera’s just turned off i don’t know why i don’t know why i stand by

Chris Collard (26:58.217)

I cut that.

Andrew (27:05.41)

Camera has just cut out.

Andrew (27:20.43)

That’s never happened before. I’m not advertising. I’m just going to take a drink here. I’m going to grab myself a drink too. I’ll be back in two. I’m just kidding.

Chris Collard (27:20.62)

While I’m not advertising, I’m just gonna take a drink here. I’m just kidding.

Andrew (28:07.87)

I’m just going to check something quickly.

Magic design, black magic design, that’s correct. I’m just getting it, I think I know why there’s an echo, but I’m hoping it’s gonna be recording fine. I’m getting my sound from you from my laptop, whereas I should be getting it through here. But I believe it’s gonna work, so I’m just gonna continue. Hope for the best, it’s still recording.

Chris Collard (28:26.524)

Okay. Mic check. One, two, three.

Chris Collard (28:33.908)

Mary had a little lamb. Yep, I can still hear it in your office. Okay.

Andrew (28:36.47)

Okay, yeah, I can hear you. I can still hear you there. Okay. So. Yeah. So, and that’s the wonderful thing about this business in partnerships, it’s a win-win. It’s a business relationship, whether it’s written or unwritten, but if you get somebody you work with that you get product from, that you can get financing from them.

Chris Collard (28:41.528)

thinking where we picked up. So, and that’s the wonderful thing about this business in partnerships, it’s a win-win. It’s a business relationship, whether it’s written or unwritten, but if you get somebody you work with that you get product from, you can even get financing from them, you just have to be very careful that you don’t find yourself compromising your standards or the ethics of the editorial by…

Andrew (29:03.938)

that you just have to be very careful that you don’t find yourself compromising your standards or the ethics of the editorial by pumping somebody out that shouldn’t be because they’re giving you stuff. Yeah, that’s one of the things I appreciate about the videos that you do. It seems to me at least, like you just pull off the gloves and you say what you feel. And there aren’t that many people out there that will do that. But they might say things like,

Chris Collard (29:11.748)

pumping somebody up that shouldn’t be because they’re giving you stuff. Yeah, it’s one of the things I appreciate about the videos that you do. It seems to me at least, you just pull off a glove and you say what you feel. And there aren’t that many people out there that will do that. They might say things like, Chevy’s great, Ford’s Sagtotas are on top of the world, just so they can build arguments within the viewer base. But…

Andrew (29:34.132)

or on top of the world, just so they can build arguments within the viewer base, but just if it’s their own opinion.

Chris Collard (29:39.328)

just if it’s, you know, if it’s variable in its opinion. Yeah. Sometimes that’s lacking, I think.

Andrew (29:46.006)

It’s an interesting world we live in because we’re accused because I’ll do a build and it’s a lot of money. The people that the accessory investors collectively invest a great deal of money in. There’s a lot of money in value. I don’t see a cent of it, but I do own it. So some of the audience will say, well, you were given it. Of course, you’re going to say good things about it. And I have to kind of say, well, I asked for it.

For a reason, for a very good reason. Either I was really interested in it and I wanted to review it. And if I stick it on my car and I don’t leave it there, well, you’ll know why. Or I’ll share with you whatever happens and aren’t I lucky, I get to keep it. But I pick it, I’m very, very fussy. And I’m offered things and I’m sure you are all the time, offered things for a build. Please fit our awning, please fit this, please fit that.

Chris Collard (30:17.12)

Mm-hmm.

Andrew (30:44.686)

because they know it’s big bucks in their hands because they sell a lot of it. And I don’t consider these endorsements because I’ve been offered ambassadorships on several brands. And I said, no, the only thing I’m an ambassador to is to the West Australia Parks Foundation, which is a nonprofit, it’s for eco environment, environmental things. There’s no money in it, is supporting environmental causes.

not supporting the sale of a roof rack. So I’ve had to just say, thanks, I really appreciate it, but no thanks. But I’m not even using your XY anyway. Why are you contacting me? It’s an interesting world we live in. We’ve got to be polite, but at the same time, a little bit picky, I feel. And I 100% agree with all of that.

Chris Collard (31:35.164)

Mm-hmm. And I 100% agree with all of that. It’s interesting because I was, when I left Overland Journal, BF Goodrich reached out to me and asked me if I would be a brand ambassador. That’s part of why we met in Melbourne for the KM3 launch. But when they did that, I told them, I said, you know, I’m an editor, I’m a journalist. I’m gonna be writing about all types of products and other companies’ tires.

Andrew (31:39.518)

It’s interesting because I was, when I left over the journal, BF Goodrich reached out to me and asked me if I would be a brand ambassador. That’s part of why we met in Melbourne for the KM3 launch. But when they did that, I told them, I said, you know, I’m an editor. I’m a journalist. I’m going to be writing about all types of products and other companies’ tires. And they said, and we know that, Chris. You’ve already talked about it.

Chris Collard (32:03.208)

And they said, and we know that Chris, we’ve already talked about it. Um, we just, we were like, you know, wear our hat. And, and it was easy for me because honestly, my first set of tires was around 1981, we have Goodrich tires was 1981 on a Dodge Challenger, my high school car. And I was like, man, I’m going to get those TA radials. Cause those were like the baddest tires out there. Um, so I was like, yeah, I was, I was, they were. Yeah. On Kregger wheels. I was like.

Andrew (32:07.746)

we just, we were like, you know, wear our hat. And it was easy for me, because honestly my first set of tires was around 1981, the Ability Tires was 1981 on a Dodge Challenger, my high school car. And I was like, man, I’m gonna get those TA Radials, because those were like the baddest tires out there. Yeah, they were. So I was like, that was, they were. Yeah. On Crager wheels. That was like the hot ticket for a high school kid.

Chris Collard (32:32.768)

the hot ticket for a high school kid. So that was easy.

Andrew (32:38.102)

That’s an interesting thing. They was easy. Was that a was that a paid ambassadorship? I’m curious because BF Goodrich, I was only other company that have actually been an ambassador to and that was for BF Goodrich. And we had a three year contract and I think I got some new management. But soon after the launch, they actually I don’t know if fired me is the right word. But they said, no, we’re changing. We’re changing up. I don’t want to.

point fingers and accuse them of anything, but they’re just saying, we’re changing the way we do things. And that’s what they said. So I have to accept that as an unfaith value. But I thought that perhaps they got so ticked off with me because I had some problems crossing the Simpson with a two eight five.

75 on the troop carrier, which is a bit too wide for the troop carrier because of its body, the body shape and things. And so on the yumps, when going through that very, very rough, you’ve crossed the Simpson, you know how those things where you try and moderate the speed, try and keep the speed low, but you’ve got to keep it going to get up and down. And you just try and find a nice balance. And every now and again, that my right back wheel, I could hear it

Chris Collard (33:40.184)

Alright.

Andrew (33:47.978)

on the bodywork because it was this much wider than any other tire had. They only had the 285 75s for me. And I said, and I think it was my downfall, I said, I don’t like wide tires. Reference it up first in the tires. And I think they probably thought, well, that’s not good for business. But anyway, they then told to me, no more ambassadorships because I had a paid ambassadorship. It wasn’t a lot of money, but it wasn’t a small amount either. It was worth it for me.

Chris Collard (34:06.031)

Mm.

Andrew (34:16.186)

and I had used their tires since 2009. And I had 2009, not a single puncture until I was, I was with Paul Marsh in 2014 and I’d done a lot of trips with the KO2, the KMS, mostly the KO2s. And I loved those tires. They were fantastic tires. Absolutely brilliant. Incredibly reliable.

Not great in mud, very good in sand, general purpose gravel road, really good grip traction and tough. So I liked them a lot. And I did a video, I remember saying only one puncture in I don’t know how many thousand kilometers it was, but anyway it was good publicity for them and we had a very good relationship because it was a damn good product. And I was a bit disappointed when they pulled out because I had to go find another product that I liked. I’ve now got one that I

I like as much, but it’s not a sponsorship. It would they say to me, how many times would you like? Andrew will sort you out. And that’s the end of the deal. And they are the Falcons and I like them and they’re suiting me well. But since those early days of those be of good riches, they were so much better than anything else. Now, I’m not so sure because other type manufacturers have got better and better and better. So there are some other times that I probably I think are probably as good as.

as the beer of the K.O. 2s. Yep. It’s great tire. And to answer your question, it wasn’t a paid ambassadorship. Okay. They have different levels. They have their own steam, which you know, the racers, the Ramacaprins was like 10 and a half. The other level, which is just brand ambassador. So it was you know, it was product only.

Chris Collard (35:43.752)

Yeah, it’s great tire. And to answer your question, it wasn’t a paid ambassadorship. They have different levels. They have their performance team, which had the racers, the Rob McCackrens, those bikes, and then they have the other level, which is just brand ambassadors. So it was, you know, it was product only. So it wasn’t like a, you know, a huge thing. And that, and, and to make sure if any feeling any better, I got fired as well. They got a, they recently had a new, um,

Andrew (36:03.142)

Um, so it wasn’t like a, you know, a huge thing and that, and it makes you feel any better. I got tired as well. We got to, they recently had a new, um,

Chris Collard (36:13.196)

a handler for their ambassadors and social media. And she seems to think that, I don’t know, I look at some of the people that they’ve got on there now and I’m like, okay, so there’s a million viewers, but they’re just a bunch of knuckle-draggers, you know, looking for a cute girl. So I don’t know, I got myself, I mean, Charlene Bauer, who is the Ladies Off-Road Network person that just…

Andrew (36:13.686)

that uh, candler for their ambassadors and social media. And she seems to think that, I don’t know, I look at some of the people that they’ve got on there now and I’m like, okay, so there’s a million viewers, but they’re just a bunch of knuckle-draggers, you know, looking for a cute girl. So I don’t know, I got myself, I mean, um, Charlene Bauer, who is the Ladies Off-Road Network person that just

Chris Collard (36:39.192)

kills it on the media side and she’s a super, always been a fan of BF Goodrich, still drives a BF Goodrich flag, her cheapest wrapped BF Goodrich. But apparently she was let go too and other, you know, Del Albright, friend of mine, off road Hall of Fame guy, he was dropped as well. So that, you know, I guess it comes and goes.

Andrew (36:40.162)

kills it on the media side and she’s the super, always been a fan of BF Goodrich, still drives a BF Goodrich flag. You know, her jeep is wrapped, BF Goodrich. But apparently she was let go too, and other, you know, yellow Albright, turn of mind, offered Hall of Fame guy. He was dropped as well, so, you know, I guess it comes and goes. Sorry, I lost my camera again. I don’t know, I’ve never done this before. Keep going.

Chris Collard (37:05.084)

I see that. Do you want me to keep going?

Andrew (37:10.254)

Okay. Yes, it’s an interesting, it’s an interesting, carry on. I said, yeah, the ambassadorship is an interesting thing. I think it’s okay. It’s just that if it’s with a product, a company that you already know that you love, you don’t, you’re not gonna change your opinion on that product or the brand because you’re now an ambassador. It’s like, it’s just stuff.

Chris Collard (37:13.78)

So the ambassadorship is.

Chris Collard (37:18.72)

I said, yeah, the ambassadorship is an interesting thing. I think it’s okay. It’s just that if it’s with a product, a company that you already know that you love, you don’t, you’re not going to change your opinion on that product or the brand because you’re now an ambassador. It’s like, it’s just stuff that’s like, you spent your own hard money buying it before and now it’s like, it’s great. I can, you know, wear the hat and get a few sets of free tires.

Andrew (37:36.214)

You spent your own hard money buying it before, and now it’s like, it’s great. I can wear the hat and a few sets of retires. I have lost my camera again. I’m gonna change the cameras to… It’s not gonna let me change cameras. It’s not gonna let me do it. I don’t know why this camera has never done it before. It’s turning itself on and turning itself off. And…

Chris Collard (38:07.424)

Now I’m gonna keep rambling.

Andrew (38:07.63)

Pretty critical piece of equipment.

Andrew (38:15.214)

I’ve got an idea, just give me a moment.

Andrew (39:15.908)

I think I.

Andrew (39:19.895)

I know it’s a powered camera, but if it doesn’t have a fully charged battery in it…

Chris Collard (39:25.804)

Hmm.

Andrew (39:26.602)

It’s just a theory at this moment, but anyway. Sorry about that. You’re the only the second person I’ve actually done this Riverside recording with. So a few teething problems. I was trying to figure out how I put the green screen on the back. So you don’t see my Massey on this.

Chris Collard (39:35.18)

That’s okay. I’ll be the guinea pig. I was trying to figure out how I put the, like a green screen on the back so you don’t see my messy office.

Andrew (39:47.65)

So let’s talk about some of the most exciting and adventurous and scary moments in your expedition. Can I use the word expedition? I know that you’re careful about using the word expedition. I’m talking about proper expedition. Maybe you should qualify the word expedition. What’s your, start with that. What’s your definition of the word expedition?

Chris Collard (40:14.952)

Interesting. I don’t think anybody’s asked me about my definition of the word expedition. I would say it’s like the Antarctica thing for sure. I mean, it’s going off into a place that there are a lot of unknowns. There’s not a support system or much of a support system. And you just got to stay sharp and frosty all the time. It’s the definition of an expedition because I’m like a fan of

Andrew (40:16.262)

Interesting. I don’t think anybody has asked me about my definition of the word expedition. I would say it’s like the Antarctica thing for sure. I mean it’s going off into a place that there are a lot of unknowns. There’s not a support system or much of a support system and you just got to stay sharp and frosty all the time.

Andrew (40:40.158)

definition of an expedition because I’m like a fan of people like Shackleton and Amundsen and Scott and Ben Carlin right from your neck of the woods with Half Slave. I mean these people are so uninspiring in things that they did that it makes me feel like I should use the word expedition very cautiously. Yeah.

Chris Collard (40:41.788)

people like Shackleton and Amundsen and Scott and these, you know, and Ben Carlin, right, right from your neck of the woods with Half Safe. I mean, it’s people just are so awe-inspiring and things that they did that it makes me feel like I should use the word expedition very cautiously. You know, and

Andrew (41:06.658)

You know, and they mentioned the whole idea about overlanding. It’s like when I recall that in 2019, we did a 50th anniversary recreation of the East West Australia 1969 East West Australia trip. And it was Ben Davidson. Yeah, I remember that article. Yes. And from Cheap Action. Cheaps. Yes, I remember it. Yeah. And, you know, we call that an expedition. I’d say, yes, sections of war.

Chris Collard (41:07.112)

They mentioned the whole idea about overlanding. It’s like when, I don’t know if you recall, but in 2019, we did a 50th anniversary recreation of the East West Australia, 1969 East West Australia trip. Hit it with Ben Davidson, kind of co-produced it with Ben Davidson from Jeep Action. Yep. Um, yeah. And, you know, I, we called it an expedition. I’d say, yeah, sections of it were because we did cross the Simpson. We didn’t cross on the French line or the QAA. We.

Andrew (41:32.586)

because we didn’t cross the Simpson, we didn’t cross on the French line to the QAA. We went up to a beachcomber and we took a tangent straight across the end up to the end of that station the same way that they did in 1969. And we were just cutting fresh tracks through the dunes for seven days without support. So it was, you know.

Chris Collard (41:36.756)

We went up to Beachcomber and we took a tangent straight across the end up to the end data station the same way that they did it in 1969 and we were just cutting fresh tracks through the dunes for seven days without sport. So it was, you know, I would say no sport. We had an inner reach technically. We had a satellite phone, so it was nowhere near what these guys did in 1969. We actually had two of them.

Andrew (41:57.146)

I would say no support we had. By Nanny Reese, technically we had a satellite phone, so there’s nowhere near what these guys did in 1969. We actually had two of them, Ian McDonald and John Eggelson, the videographer who came with us on this trip, which was just awesome. So we did call that expedition. I did one in Africa about 15 years ago. I was still a little bit coming back then, and they produced all their North American.

Chris Collard (42:07.052)

Ian McDonald and John Eggelson, the videographer, came with us on this trip, which was just awesome. So we did call that expedition. I did one in Africa about 15 years ago. I did a lot of work with Hummer back then, and they produced all their non-North American spec vehicles in Port Elizabeth. And just kind of the idea came up at a program here in California with Nick Richards, who was the communications director.

Andrew (42:26.32)

inspect vehicles in Port Elizabeth. And just kind of the idea came up at a prep program here in California with Nick Richards, who was the communications director about Africa. And it actually was because Jeep had just launched the JK in Africa. And I mentioned that Nick ran a campfire, like, you know, they really blew it on the whole JK launch.

Chris Collard (42:37.184)

about Africa and it actually was because Jeep had just launched the JK. They did it in Africa. And I had mentioned that Nick around the campfire is like, you know, they really blew it on the whole JK launch. And he’s like, what do you mean? I said, well, they fly everybody in. You know how the program’s good. They fly you in for the viewers. They fly you in, you get red carpet for a day, day and a half, drive the vehicle. And then they fly you out. And.

Andrew (42:53.074)

And he said, what do you mean? Well, they fly everybody in. You know how the programs go. They fly you in, the viewers. They fly you in. You get ready to park it for a day, day and a half, drive the vehicle, and then they fly you out. And something like the launch of the JK, and bringing everybody into Africa, southern Africa, they should have grabbed four or five hardcore dudes and done a trip from, you know, crossing from Zambia

Chris Collard (43:05.94)

and something like the launch of the JK, and bringing everybody into Africa, Southern Africa, they should have grabbed four or five hardcore dudes and done a trip from, you know, crossing from Zambia to Saani Ferry back then, and then all the way across to Central Kalahari down to the Kutse, and, you know, done something legitimate, like in some serious editorial, and a legitimate trip. So Hummer…

Andrew (43:24.828)

and then all the way across the central Kalahari down to Kutsi and done something legitimate like some serious editorial and the legitimate trip. So Hummer gave me an H3 and I had it for two months. So picked it up in Port Elizabeth, we set it up for the local shop and went on a trip to the local shop.

Chris Collard (43:35.136)

gave me an H3 and I had it for two months. So picked it up in Port Elizabeth. We set it up with a local shop and went up through Lesotho down basically the route that I just described in reverse up into Zambia and then down through across Malawi, down through Mozambique. You know, so I call that the Hummer Africa expedition. So I don’t know. I didn’t answer your question very well, but…

Andrew (43:46.382)

through the Soutu down basically the route that I just described in reverse up into Zambia and then down through across Malawi, down through Mozambique, you know, so I call that the Hummer expedition. So I don’t know, I didn’t answer your question very well, but- No, I- It’s more of-

Chris Collard (44:04.756)

It’s more of a

Andrew (44:08.714)

You did that is that I regard that as an expedition and somebody quoted me the other day and I got a little bit. It was actually at Expo West. I heard him say to a group of people, he was addressing a group of people, he said to qualify for an overlander to really as if it’s some badge of honor, but to qualify. You have to have crossed at least two border posts. And I felt like running in there and saying.

Chris Collard (44:08.908)

Go ahead.

Chris Collard (44:36.701)

Who said that?

Andrew (44:38.95)

What a load of honesty. This is a badge that you’re trying to elevate because you’ve crossed two borders. Now you want to elevate and make yourself a little bit better than everybody else. And I said in a recent video, I mentioned this in a recent video and I said, my, my attitude is, and I was at a campsite in a camper. So I was nice, cozy and comfortable. And I was 20 minutes or less away from the shops.

And I said, anybody who’s trying to do more than this. In other words, getting away from the comforts of having a town close, a shop close and communications easy and close. Trying to get away from that and trying to get off the main track where caravans can access. So you now are self-sufficient in a compact, not necessarily, but certainly an agile vehicle that you can take away from.

the tar roads and the city streets and find new places and look for, you know, solitude. You’re an overlander. Just that desire. You’re an overlander. What do you think of that? Do you think that’s apt?

Chris Collard (45:51.38)

I don’t think that there, I’ve heard similar definitions of it’s not a trip until somebody breaks down and until there’s something that actually happens that’s bad or you get Shanghai to Zambia by rogue immigration officers. Yeah, I did that. But again, I think it’s a mentality. It’s like, I love going to Mexico. I love traveling in Baja. And when I go down there, I’ve got a general idea of what I’m going to do. But the entire…

Andrew (45:52.382)

I don’t think that there, I’ve heard similar definitions of it’s not a trip until somebody breaks down and until there’s something that actually happens that’s bad or you get shanghai to zambia by rogue immigration officers. I did that, but I can’t I think it’s mentality. It’s like I love going to Mexico. I work traveling in

And when I go down there, I’ve got a general idea of what I’m going to do. But the entire 900 peninsula is just a spider web of tracks. And if I look for one, the stuff I haven’t done before, I’m like, um, it’s like, wonder where this goes. Follow it to the other, you know, so to me, it’s more of a mentality. You might, you’ve got your vehicle, you’ve got the stuff you need, but the overland side is more, as I mentioned earlier, it’s like, when you come to the

Chris Collard (46:20.592)

900 Peninsula is just a spiderweb of tracks. And if I look for one, the stuff I haven’t done before, I’m like, I wonder where this goes and follow it to the other. So to me, it’s more of a mentality. It’s like you’ve got your vehicle, you’ve got the stuff you need, but the overland side is more, as I mentioned earlier, it’s like when you come to the fork in the road, you take it. And if you talk to a local at a fish taco stand,

Andrew (46:45.236)

fish taco stand and he’s like ah the pescadero is down on this beach they have clams they have almeja today so clams it’s like ah let’s go down and buy some fresh clams from the fishermen and it’s just spontaneity yeah it’s not about race air intakes um it’s not about all the gear because you know you and i both know that you’ve seen people go overlanding and vehicles that you would not consider most people wouldn’t consider an overland vehicle

Chris Collard (46:46.108)

And he’s like, ah, the pescadero is down in this beach. They have clams. They have almeja today. So clams. It’s like, ah, let’s go down and buy some fresh clams from the fishermen. And it’s just spontaneity. It’s not about race air intakes. It’s not about all the gear because, you know, we, you and I both know that we’ve seen people go overlanding in vehicles that you would not consider. Most people wouldn’t consider an overland vehicle. Yeah.

But you asked about scary stuff. Um, I mean, stuff happens, man. I’ve had, I’ve had a few, yeah. I was covering the Outback Challenge in Morocco, um, 15 or 16 years ago. And I was in a, the media car I was riding in was an ex race vehicle. Um, so it, a lot of stuff was taken out of it, including the seatbelts and.

Andrew (47:17.437)

Um, yeah, but you asked about scary stuff. Um, I mean stuff happens man. I’ve had, I’ve had a few, yeah, I was covering the Outback Challenge in Morocco.

15 or 16 years ago, and I was in a media car, I was riding in, was an ex-race vehicle. So a lot of stuff was taken out of it, including the seat belts.

Chris Collard (47:45.136)

I was in the back, there was like a cooler, like an air-v type cooler bolted down between myself and the young French journalist that was with us. And I was just like, I was uncomfortable. I had a bad feeling. And I always try to follow my gut. And so I had asked him, I was like, you know what, I’d like to get out of this vehicle and get into another car. I mean, they had some regular SUV type vehicles because there were no seat belts. And the French Moroccan dude that was driving…

Andrew (47:46.63)

I was in the back, there was like a cooler, like an air-v type cooler bolted down between myself and the French journalist, young French journalist that was with us. And I was just like, I was uncomfortable. I had a bad feeling. And I always try to follow my gut. So I had asked him, it’s like, you know what, I’d like to get out of this vehicle and get into another car. I mean, they had some regular SUV type vehicles because there are no seat belts. And the French Moroccan dude that was driving was like, ah, you see, it’s fine. It would be okay. And I was like, I’m not going to get in that car. I’m going to get in the car. I’m going to get in the car

Chris Collard (48:13.016)

I was like, ah, it’s fine, it’ll be okay. And I kind of pushed the subject. He’s around the bivouac, telling everybody about the American. Ah, the American, he thought, she built. Blah, blah, blah. Well, the next night, we’re heading down some windy dirt road with cliffs on one side and mountains on the other and sand dunes. And I’m just, I’m just got a bad feeling. I’m holding onto that handle up here and just watching over the driver’s shoulder.

Andrew (48:16.524)

and I kind of pushed the subject at peace around the bivouac, telling everybody about the American audience. American, it’s a secret. Well, the next night, we’re.

heading down some whitey dirt road with cliffs on one side and mounds on the other and then sand dunes and And i’m just i’m just got a bad feeling i’m holding onto that handle up here and just watching over the driver’s shoulder Out the headlights and suddenly it’s like car just heads off the road

Chris Collard (48:42.1)

out the headlights and suddenly it’s like car just heads off the road. And I didn’t hear what he said. I found out later that he said, no steering. Uh, and you know, Tyra, Rodden broke, we hit an embankment and we just, we barrel rolled two and a half times down the road. It was violent and, uh, scary. We all survived. Nobody got thrown out. Um, my whole left side got torn up pretty good because we went over like that. So it’s my side down first.

Andrew (48:49.278)

And I didn’t hear what he said. I found out later that he said, no steering. And Tyra, a rod end broke. We hit an embankment and we just, we barrel rolled two and a half times down the road. It was violent and scary. We all survived. Nobody got thrown out. My whole left side got torn up pretty good. Cause we went over like that. So it’s my side down first, but that was scary. Yeah.

Chris Collard (49:12.508)

But that was scary, yeah. Yeah, there have been a few others. Yeah, Moroccan hospitals, you don’t want to be in them. They’re very third world.

Andrew (49:16.746)

Wow, that’s nasty. That’s that’s very nasty. No, no. I remind me of a story in Swaziland, the launch of the Land Cruiser 100. They supply a Toyota supply a representative.

Chris Collard (49:28.065)

Uh…

Andrew (49:39.722)

with two journalists, I’m driving, enjoying the car, the chap with us is a guy called Upi Renuka, he was a rally driver. After an hour or so, he said, do you mind if I drive? I haven’t even driven it yet. And I said, absolutely not, please drive. Being a rally driver, I thought, well, I’m gonna keep an eye on how he drives and just suck it all up.

We had another journalist in the back, don’t remember his name, who refused to put on a seatbelt. And up he turned and turned to him and said, please put on your seatbelt. I’m going to drive quite fast. I need you to put on a seatbelt. And the journalist said, now I’ll be fine. I’ll be fine. I’ll be fine. And he kind of looked at me and I thought, oh, I’m putting on mine. And he drove so brilliantly. And it was the first time I’d ever seen left-whip braking.

and he would go through these and he never crossed this. This was on an asphalt road, very, very twisty with solid white line and he never crossed that white line. Not once did he cross that white line, but he would go into the corners, full throttle, the automatic gearbox, so full throttle, and he would leave his foot buried and just ease the brakes into the corner and just pull them out of the thing.

And I said, you need to tell me what you’re doing. This is amazing. And he was teaching me about high speed balance of, you know, because when you take your foot off, of course, the car does this, then you put your foot back on the brake and the car does this and you have balance front and back, which I knew about. Obviously, we all know about that. But he started saying, now, what happens when you at the edge of traction going really fast?

It was that I learned more in an hour with him than in my entire life, just watching this consummate professional drive very fast and very safely. I didn’t have this moment doubt in my mind that this guy was, we were fine, you know? So I can understand why you had a bad feeling. Those people are so inspiring. Yeah. It’s like they are, they are, like you said, they are just on the line.

Chris Collard (51:39.2)

That’s incredible. Those people are so inspiring. It’s like they are, they are, like you said, they are just on the line. They’re on the edge and they know that they can drive. Most of us can drive at a hundred percent of our ability for about 10% of the time. And the really good drivers like that, they’ve mastered it where they can drive at 95% all day, you know, it’s, it’s pretty amazing.

Andrew (51:50.094)

They’re on the edge and they know that they can drive. Most of us can drive at 100% of our ability for about 10% of the time.

Andrew (52:03.405)

and really good drivers like that, they’ve mastered it, where he can drive at 95% all day. All day. Constant, every… It’s pretty amazing. Yeah, it is. Every corner, every… It was just brilliant. And then I started asking him about safety, and he started talking about, you know, looking at distance, you know, for long distance, you know, you’re looking at medium distance and then far distance and then reading the signs and…

We had this brilliant hour. It was absolutely fantastic. And we, I think as men, we kind of think we drive well. And then we sit with somebody like him. I’ve seen it with flying sometimes. I think I’m a really competent pilot. And my good mate of mine used to fly Red Bull air races. And I flew with him a few times. And I realized I was crap because he was…

Chris Collard (52:53.645)

Yeah.

Andrew (52:54.55)

So precise, so unbelievably precise. And I could only fly really well when it was necessary, i.e. when you’re taking off and landing, another time you just become lazy and fly okay. These guys, all the time. So it’s magic to watch them. Yeah, the word you said was precision. Yeah.

Chris Collard (53:17.34)

Yeah. The word you said was precision. And that, that defines that type of pilot or that type of driver. They were just there on their game. They feel it. They feel the car. They understand it. It’s part of them. And when you’re looking at the near far distance, spatial relationships, it’s like their eyes are moving so fast and the peripheral is picking these things up. And the left foot braking thing. I learned left foot braking from Rod Hall in Mexico and Baja. Um, it was one of my.

Andrew (53:21.326)

Yeah. And that defines that type of pilot or that type of driver. Yeah. They’re just there on their game. They feel it. They feel the car. They understand it. It’s part of them. And when you’re looking at the near far distance, spatial relationships, it’s like their eyes are moving so fast and the peripheral is picking these things up. And the left foot breaking, I learned left foot breaking from Rod Hall. OK. In Baja.

um was one of my kind of hero uh racers and uh i was with him on a program down there and he collared at me you know because i went in and i broke with my right foot i break lifted from the throttle and hit the brakes with my right foot and he’s like what the heck are you doing you’ll never be a you’ll never be a fast driver if you can’t break with your left foot

Chris Collard (53:46.84)

kind of hero racers, you know, and I was with him on a program down there and he collared at me, you know, because I went in and I broke with my right foot, I lifted from the throttle and hit the brakes with my right foot and he’s like, what the heck are you doing? You’ll never be a fast driver if you can’t break with your left foot. And I’m like, that held me and that was probably like 20 years ago. So.

Andrew (54:09.454)

And I’m like, that held me and that was probably like 20 years ago. Yeah. And the first time you do it, you do it far too hard and the car stops. Very, very first time you actually try left foot braking. Yeah. But if you do it all the time and I talk to people and I work occasionally as a driving instructor and even that with some of the people in the chief programs and used to be stuck with Land Rover. And, you know, some people have a really hard time. I can’t just break my left foot.

Chris Collard (54:18.104)

Yeah, you feather it in. Yeah. But if you do it all the time, and I talk to people, I mean, I work occasionally as a driving instructor and even out with some of the people in the Jeep programs and used to do stuff with Land Rover. Um, and you know, some people have a really hard time. Like I can’t just break with my left foot. It’s like, you need to break with your left foot, especially if you’re in technical terrain, you’re driving an automatic, you need to drive with your left foot on the brake. That’s how you control it. Especially with an automatic.

Andrew (54:36.554)

You need to brake with your left foot, especially if you’re in technical terrain, you’re driving an automatic, you need to drive with your left foot on the brake. Yeah, especially with an automatic. Yeah. Especially with an automatic. I find myself doing it with my manual. I do it all the time with my manual. But it’s practice. It’s just doing it more and more and more and eventually it becomes natural. Practice. Yeah.

Chris Collard (54:48.462)

Um.

Chris Collard (54:53.313)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Collard (54:58.724)

Mm-hmm. Let’s practice.

Andrew (55:02.122)

Tell me to wrap this up, in the overlanding world at the moment, what’s the new big destination? Everybody knows about Southern Africa and everybody knows about Outback Australia because of all the YouTubers going on and on about how wonderful these places are and they are wonderful. But there’s not a lot of new stuff out there. Where is the new destination that we should go? Well, okay, so you’re going to stunt me on that one.

Chris Collard (55:27.965)

Wow. Okay, so you’re going to stump me on that one. That’s a good question. In my opinion, for anybody that’s watching or listening, your next destination should be somewhere that you have not been. And it might be one of the places that you’ve read about or heard about or watched a video on, but I think that going to a place that you haven’t been, at least for me…

Andrew (55:31.926)

That is, that’s a good question. I, in my opinion, for anybody that’s watching or listening, your next destination should be somewhere that you have not been. And it might be one of the places that you’ve read about or heard about or watched a video on, but I…

I think that going to a place that you haven’t been, at least for me, it helps me maintain that excitement I had 20 something years ago when I’m like, oh man, I’m taking off to do this, I’m getting on a plane, I’m going to Cape Town or Delhi or that excitement. I think it’s…

Chris Collard (55:55.78)

It helps me maintain that excitement I had 20 something years ago. And I’m like, oh man, I’m taking off to do this. I’m getting on a plane. I’m going to Cape town or, or Delhi or, you know, that excitement. I think it’s, um, I don’t know that it should be put into a box of, uh, I mean, there’s so many amazing places to see. I mean, there’s so many places I haven’t seen. I’ve been lucky to see a lot of stuff, but there’s a lot of places I haven’t been. Um, and I think that.

Andrew (56:11.642)

I don’t know that it should be put into a box of, I mean, there’s so many amazing places to see. I mean, there’s so many places I haven’t seen. I’ve been lucky to see a lot of stuff, but there’s a lot of places I haven’t been. And I think that…

Chris Collard (56:26.684)

That it should be for the average person, the normal person. And I consider us like normal people. We just have cool jobs. Um, it should be someplace you haven’t, haven’t been someplace that you’ve desired to go and it could be Africa, it could be Southern Africa, you know, uh, supposed to be heading to Morocco and October, Eastern Morocco. And I’ve been there before. Um, but I’m still excited to go back because I think it’s just amazing culture and ancient architecture and, um,

Andrew (56:27.774)

that it should be for the average person, the normal person, and consider us like normal people. We just have cool jobs. It should be someplace you haven’t been, someplace that you desire to go, and it could be Africa, it could be Southern Africa. You know, I’m supposed to be heading to Morocco in October, Eastern Morocco, and I’ve been there before, but I’m still excited to go back because I think it’s just amazing culture and ancient architecture. And yeah, I didn’t answer that question.

Chris Collard (56:54.112)

Yeah, I didn’t answer that question. I can’t put it in a box that way. I mean, one of the places that I want to go is Papua New Guinea, you know, into the highlands and do a big project in Papua New Guinea. So I have a vehicle that I keep in South America. It’s in Uruguay right now. And there’s tons of South America that I haven’t seen yet. So it’s a matter of getting down there. But back to your question, it’s, I think that

Andrew (56:57.648)

You can’t put it in a box that way. Okay. I mean, one of the places that I want to go is Papua New Guinea, you know, into the islands and do a big project in Papua New Guinea. So I have a vehicle that I keep in South America. It’s on the roadway right now. And there’s tons of South America that I haven’t seen yet. So it’s…

matter of getting down there. But back to your question, it’s I think that for most people, you know, it’s gonna go back to what we started talking about earlier. It’s like how much time do you have? I have had people tell me it’s like, oh, we’re going to Australia. And I’m like, that’s awesome. And then they say we’re going to New Zealand, too. And I’ll be like, wow, how much time do you have? And they’re like, a week.

Chris Collard (57:22.496)

for most people, it’s gonna go back to what we started talking about earlier. It’s like, how much time do you have? I have had people tell me, it’s like, oh, we’re going to Australia. And I’m like, that’s awesome. And then they say, we’re going to New Zealand too. And I’ll be like, wow, how much time do you have? And it was like a week. And so they’re gonna fly 16 hours to get to Melbourne.

Andrew (57:47.246)

16 hours to get to Melbourne and probably take flight out to Alice and Uluru and then like fly to Auckland and it’s like we did Australia and we did New Zealand but it’s like you and I both know they went there they got the passport stamp but it’s like you know bite off a chunk that you have the ability to do and actually see some stuff and just someplace you haven’t been. I mean that’s the New Death’s Nation. Right.

Chris Collard (57:48.836)

and probably take a flight out to Alice and Uluru, and then like fly to Auckland. And it’s like, we did Australia and we did New Zealand, but it’s like, you and I both know they really, they went there, they got their passport stamped, but it’s like, you know, buy it off a chunk that you have the ability to do and actually see some stuff. And just some place you haven’t been. I mean, that’s the new destination, some place that you haven’t been.

Andrew (58:17.6)

That’s pretty good advice. Morocco is somewhere I’ve not been and I’m actually planning something for 24 in Morocco. I want to do something in the UK. It’s not an expedition, it’s a road trip. I recently did my US trip was not an expedition, it was a road trip. I think after talking to you now I’m going to be a little bit more circumspect when choosing to use the word expedition.

Chris Collard (58:17.992)

Yeah.

Chris Collard (58:30.456)

I’m sorry.

Andrew (58:42.314)

Road trip. It was we were in a van and a camper van and we had a fantastic time and I made a couple of videos and it was a road trip. But what I also did is I did an overlanding boat trip. Now, an overland boat that a friend of mine who’s built it. He was he was, you know,

building the boat and all the people helping build it, what are you using it for? We’re using it for overlanding and they’re like, what, are you out of your mind? No, no, no. See, there are places to go that you can’t get to overland, but you can with a boat. So we use a boat. Our boat is off or we’ll drive. We’re still getting to those outback remote places.

But we have to use a boat. We don’t have any choice but to use a boat. And since he started building this, and we did a short trip down in Lake Powell, it was actually brilliant. Speaking to some people in Australia, and there are Australians that do this too. They’ll take their boat and go out for a week, pack it full of beers and fishing rods, and go and explore the northern part of the Kimberley. You can’t.

I’ve been to the Kimberley by car, but by boat, you just see it in a completely different way. And actually, I would say, boats probably better, a better way of being isolated, a better way of seeing that incredible those incredible scenes of the Kimberley is by boat. So he started this new thing called Overland Boating. And I had a go with him and it was just fantastic. So good. I hope you start a YouTube channel.

Chris Collard (01:00:18.39)

I like it.

I hope he starts a YouTube channel.

Andrew (01:00:25.774)

4X boating or whatever. Yeah, and it was really good. So, yeah. Well, you know, before that, it’s funny, just came up on something I read on a post just about overlanding and what it means and the last.

Chris Collard (01:00:27.416)

Yeah, that’s it. Well, you know, before that, it’s funny, the subject just came up on something I read on a post. It was about overlanding and, you know, what it means and, you know, the last 20 years or something. And I had to jump in, actually, it was written by a friend of mine. And on the side, I just sent a note, it’s like, you know, overlanding has been around since centuries before Marco Polo.

Andrew (01:00:44.622)

20 years or something and I had to jump in. Actually it was written by a friend of mine. And on the side, I just sent him a note, it’s like, you know, boat landing has been around since centuries before Marco Polo, because you either went over sea or you went over land. And it was a defined difference based on the insurance needs. Like Lloyd’s of London and that type of thing is like where, you know, they were ensuring it’s both just to come around the Cape and carry spice back

Chris Collard (01:00:55.904)

because you either went over sea or you went over land. And there was a defined difference based on the insurance needs, like Lloyd’s of London and that type of thing. It’s like where, you know, they were insuring this boat to come around the Cape and carry spice back from the Spice Islands or the traveling the Silk Road, you know. So the term’s been around for so long. I mean, it’s really, obviously it’s come to kind of the mainstream lexicon, but.

Andrew (01:01:14.976)

the Spice Islands or the traveling the Silk Road, you know, so The term’s been around for so long. I mean, it’s really obviously come to kind of the mainstream lexicon, but The term has been there forever. But speaking of your boat thing, that’s actually That’s actually one of my upcoming things I’ve sailed since I was in college

Chris Collard (01:01:25.388)

You know, the term has been there forever. But speaking of your boat thing, that’s actually, that’s actually one of my upcoming things. I’ve sailed since I was in college. Um, had a 16 foot hobie and drug it all the way up and down the coast of California and into Mexico. And my wife and I, uh, have a small sailboat and, uh, but a bigger sailboat is on the horizon. So we’ll be doing some boat overlanding, right? Overland boating.

Andrew (01:01:37.122)

16 foot holey and drug it all the way up and down the coast of California and into Mexico. And my wife and I have a small sailboat, but a bigger sailboat is on the horizon. So we’ll be doing some boat overlanding, right? Overland boating.

Yeah. And then you might not hear from me, because I may take off for six months here a year. Yeah. I think it’s fresh new material for magazine writing and articles, actually. The whole boat, the whole overland boating idea. It’s not for fishing, you see, because all these people building the boat are saying, well, don’t you go fishing? And he said, well, I have fished, I know how to fish, and I do occasionally fish, but that’s not why I’m building the boat. I’m building it to go overland, exploring. So it’s an exploring boat.

Chris Collard (01:01:55.356)

And then you might not hear from me because I might take off for six months or a year.

Chris Collard (01:02:09.481)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Collard (01:02:22.824)

Yeah. And there’s so much to see.

Andrew (01:02:24.81)

And it’s same problems. You have to deal with weather, even more than you do with overlanding, obviously, but weather, range, fuel points, return agendas, and obviously tides and other things that go with traveling in water, but they’re so much similar. And we were completely cut off, but we did have a we did have cell phone signal, so you can get cell phone signal.

all over Lake Powell and I was kind of hoping to get a dead signal. And actually it turned out we did have a dead signal, but only because we were in a really shallow, very narrow gorge. But it was so nice just doing it in such a different way and actually waking up in the morning being surrounded by fish. Ten thousand fish surrounding us in this little part of the of the lake that nobody goes to.

It was brilliant. It was absolutely fantastic. Yeah. You know. Yeah. I like the water. I might be out on our sailboat tomorrow night. It’s supposed to be windy. So, it’s about 45 minutes from where I left. Right.

Chris Collard (01:03:21.004)

Yeah. I like the water. I might be out on our sailboat tomorrow night. It’s supposed to be windy. So it’s about 45 minutes from where I live. But yeah, that’s it. And you know, that there are a lot of similarities between say mine would be a sailboat, but because you’ve got even more systems that you have on a vehicle, because you’ve got an entire electrical grid on a sailboat, you know, or a power boat, and you’ve got an engine and a transmission and a drive system. You’ve got a plumbing system.

Andrew (01:03:31.222)

But yeah, that’s it. You know, there are a lot of similarities between say, like mine would be a sailboat, but because you’ve got even more systems than you have on a vehicle because you’ve got an entire electric gear on a sailboat, you don’t want a power boat, you’ve got an engine and a transmission and a drive system, you’ve got a plumbing system. I mean, you’ve got

Chris Collard (01:03:51.08)

I mean, you’ve got everything else that comes along with electronics, the nav, a gen set, if you’ve got a generator. So, I mean, you need to be pretty much a jack of all trades. And that’s a lot of, you know, what I, you know, the overlanding thing is that when you do head out, if it’s an expedition or crossing the Simpson or going into, you know, remote places, like my opinion, you need to really fine tune your skills. You know, you need to

Andrew (01:03:54.43)

everything else that comes along with electronics, the nav, a genset, if you get a generator. So I mean you need to be pretty much a jack of all trades and that’s a lot of you know what I you know the over landing thing is that.

When you do head out, if it’s an expedition or crossing the Simpson or going into places like, in my opinion, you need to really find tenure skills. You need to sharpen your skills from understanding your vehicle. I think that’s one of the things that’s lost in modern vehicles is that most people have no idea how to work on that. I think some of them. Or even that you could, even if you were working driving old carbureted.

Chris Collard (01:04:19.712)

sharpen your skills from understand your vehicle. I think that’s one of the things that’s lost in modern vehicles is that most people have no idea how to work on them. And that you even, or even that you could, even if you were working and driving an old carbureted, you know, straight six, 258 Jeep or an old Land Rover, it’s like, can you, do you know that?

Andrew (01:04:39.15)

straight six 258g or an old Land Rover, it’s like, can you, do you know that, you know, that Defender has a full floating axle and do you know what that is? Do you know that you can actually pull that axle out, get a long magnet, you can get the broken piece out, and if you carry one you can be self-sufficient and fix it on the trail by yourself.

Chris Collard (01:04:45.28)

You know, that defender has a full floating axle. And do you know what that is? Do you know that you can actually pull that axle out? If you had a long magnet, you can get the broken piece out. And if you carry one, you can be self-sufficient and fix it on the trail by yourself, that type of thing. I mean, I think a lot of that is the skills side of it. Um, it’s something I think most people could work on.

Andrew (01:04:59.314)

that type of thing. I mean, I think a lot of that is the skill side of it. But it’s being eroded by the way new vehicles are built and designed. Some of them you just cannot touch. You know, very, very highly complex vehicles. But even my own, I look at my troop carriers, my Africa troop carriers, a straight six diesel. If something went wrong with that motor, I would have a very good chance of finding out what it was, maybe even fixing it. My V8?

It’s just not as easy. It’s just I know it’s the same principle, but it’s governed by electronics. So if the if the diesel pump fails, well, why does it fail? Immobilizer or is there something else that something else? Well, I don’t know. I don’t actually know what to do. I feel out of my depth even thinking about it. One HZ.

If it’s not getting fuel, the engine won’t run. Why isn’t it getting fuel? Is the electrical connection correct? Yeah, it’s fine. It’s got the solenoid is opening. So why isn’t it getting fuel? Well, why isn’t it getting fuel? There’s a pipe, there’s some filters. Why isn’t it getting fuel? If it’s, it’s gotta be one of those two things. It can’t be anything else. There’s nothing else. So I’m comfortable with it. And I’m not comfortable with the V8 because it can be other things, electronic. And those electronic things.

Chris Collard (01:06:08.608)

Okay. Yes.

Andrew (01:06:19.766)

They are a challenge in the bush. What do you do? Really? I have a scan gauge that they might be able to give me a warning and give me a hint of what it is, but can I fix it?

Chris Collard (01:06:23.444)

Yeah. I mean, just today I was…

Chris Collard (01:06:34.177)

Mm-hmm.

Andrew (01:06:35.222)

Maybe not. I don’t know. Yeah, electronics are a bugger. Yeah. Especially when you’ve got like I was just analyzing, diagnosing a battery.

Chris Collard (01:06:36.948)

Yeah, electronics are a bugger, especially when you’ve got, like I was just analyzing, diagnosing a battery indicator light on the dash in my wife’s vehicle. And, you know, checked it. Okay, it doesn’t seem that the alternator is putting out voltage, but there are six, there are like five other things that could cause that to happen as well. Like if a 7.5 amp fuse that runs the IM1 fuse, which sends a signal to the…

Andrew (01:06:48.37)

indicated right on the dash, my wife’s here, but and you know, checked it. Okay. It doesn’t seem that the alternator is putting out voltage, but there are six, there are like five other things that could cause that to happen as well. Like a 7.5 amp fuse that runs the I am one fuse, which sends a signal, the ignition would send a signal to the ECM, which sends a signal back to the alternator to make a charge. Like, you know, it’s not like the old days, especially in an old diesel, we got one wire and he got fuel.

Chris Collard (01:07:04.872)

ignition, which sends a signal to the ECM, which sends a signal back to the alternator to make a charge. It’s like, you know, it’s not like the old days, especially in an old diesel, where you got one wire and you got fuel.

Andrew (01:07:18.574)

And it’s impossible to know everything. It’s impossible unless you’re actually, that’s your job, to know your vehicle so well that no matter what happens to it, you can fix it with a new vehicle, with any modern vehicle. Older vehicles, yes, modern vehicles, no. And we have to just live with that and hope for reliable vehicles and maybe just mitigate the risk. But…

Chris Collard (01:07:30.72)

Yeah.

Andrew (01:07:40.506)

I’ve just done a solo trip through WA with my trip carrier and honestly, if I had a major engine failure, I would be stranded. I would have to pick up the sat phone and say, I need help. I had a suspension issue. It wasn’t a problem. I sorted it.

Chris Collard (01:07:52.19)

Mm-hmm.

Andrew (01:07:57.102)

It took me an hour and a half and I sorted my suspension issue. It was the corrugations were car breaking type corrugations and they did actually cause some damage. And I sorted it on the track because there’s no electronics. There’s nothing. It’s just pieces of steel and just climb underneath and you go, yeah, that’s not right. And then you get some spanners out and you sort it. Not with these highly electronic suspensions.

Chris Collard (01:08:20.016)

Yeah, yeah. I personally would really, I would be challenged with having a vehicle like that and I’ve driven a number of them. But, um, you know, as far as like the, you know, I was, this is where I came from. I have a 2002 Toyota Tacoma, which is like an American version, similar to the Hilux and it has a fuel injected V6. I was paranoid going to that fuel injected motor because I’m like, if this thing dies, if the computer dies, I can’t work on it. Um, I do now realize that.

Andrew (01:08:21.746)

Yeah, I personally would really be challenged with having a vehicle like that. And I feel a number of them. You know, as far as like the, you know, I was, this is where I came from. I have a 2002 Toyota Tacoma, which is like an American version, similar to the Hilux.

and it has a fuel injected V6. I was paranoid going to that fuel injected motor because I’m like, if this thing dies, if the computer dies, I can’t work on it. I do now realize that I have a much easier time diagnosing issues and that it’s been incredibly reliable. And I’ve got 305,000 miles on it and it’s been to Mexico dozens and dozens of times, and all the way up and down the East Coast of America.

Chris Collard (01:08:48.776)

I have a much easier time diagnosing issues and that it’s been incredibly reliable. I mean, I’ve got 305,000 miles on it and it’s been to Mexico dozens and dozens of times and all the way up and down the East coast of America. And I’ve learned to trust it. And I think that’s the thing is that any of the new vehicles is until you get to that point, you know.

Andrew (01:09:09.416)

to trust it and I think that’s the thing is that any of the new vehicles is until you get to that point.

Chris Collard (01:09:17.2)

It could leave me stranded someday, but if the computer died. But I’ve also learned how to work on just about everything on the vehicle. I just think it’s important. I think that the skill side of it, I do a skills article for, or a column for one of the magazines and I did one on air pressure, the big controversy of how much air you should air down to. And I basically, at the end of this long…

Andrew (01:09:17.938)

And you could leave me stranded someday, but you know, if the computer died. But I also learned how to work on just about everything on the vehicle. I just think it’s important. I think that the skill side of it, I’ve been, I do a skills article for, or a column for one of the magazines and I did one on air pressure. You know, big controversy of how much air.

you should air down to and I basically at the end of this long dissertation on air pressure, I’m like, you gotta you gotta experiment. There’s no one right air pressure. There isn’t. The weight, the size of the vehicle, the aspect ratio, the rim diameter. And even this, absolutely. And the sidewall, and the sidewall, how stiff is the sidewall? Even down to what is it looking like? And I tend to do that now I go, what’s it looking like? Yeah, it’s got a nice

Chris Collard (01:09:43.82)

dissertation on air pressure. I’m like, you got to experiment. There is no one right air pressure because of all the weight, the size of the vehicle, the aspect ratio, the rim diameter, the type of sand. There’s 50 different types. Yeah.

Chris Collard (01:10:11.188)

Yeah. There you go.

Andrew (01:10:11.524)

It’s nice and flat, it’s not too flat. It’s got a, yeah, it should be good, let’s see. And sometimes, not as low as I thought it would need it to be, but it’s, you got to do it to test it. But I think a lot of people just want that starter, that one, they want that, they want to kind of say, okay, there has to be, there are too many opinions, I need something scientific. And I can understand that, but at the end of the day, it’ll be their own judgment call.

Chris Collard (01:10:22.785)

Yeah.

Chris Collard (01:10:32.428)

Yeah.

Chris Collard (01:10:37.352)

It is. And that was my suggestion. I’d say go down to, depending on the terrain, I mean, go down to say 50% of your street pressure, see how it feels. Look at the sidewall bulge, see what kind of deformation you’ve got, and then take down a little bit more, you know, until, depending on the terrain. Like I was, you know, so there is no right number. I was on, I guided a trip on the Sierra Trek, which is a Ford ice trail here in Northern California. And so in the morning I’ve got like 50 participants and I’ve got a crew of about 10.

Andrew (01:10:37.814)

looking and driving. I would suggest that depending on the training, go down to 50% of your street pressure, see how it feels, look at the sidewall bulbs, see what kind of deformation you’ve got, and then take down a little bit more until, depending on the training, there is no right number. I was on a guided trip on the Sierra Trek, which is a four-dive trail here in Northern California. In the morning, I’ve got like 50 participants and I’ve got a crew of about 10.

Chris Collard (01:11:06.792)

And I make sure I just tell everybody, air down, pick your pressure down. But then usually at about 11 o’clock is that we leave it sunrise. So it’s early and about 11 o’clock in the morning, you know, it’s getting pretty warm up there and I get on the radio and I’m like, all right, I want everybody to get out and check your air pressure and inevitably, because when I check, I can feel it when my tires go from like six pounds to nine, you know, I’m running beadlocks and big tires.

Andrew (01:11:07.998)

and make sure to sell everybody air down, pick your pressure down. But then usually at about 11 o’clock is that we leave at sunrise, so it’s early. And about 11 o’clock in the morning, it’s getting pretty warm up there, and I get on the radio, I’m like, all right, I want everybody to get out and check your air pressure.

and inevitably, because when I check, I can feel it when my tires go from like six pounds to nine. I’m running bead logs in the tires and I’m like, I feel it start bouncing off of stuff instead of the tire just marshmallowing into an obstacle and it should have people get out and they’re just like, holy crap, I had no idea. I erred down to 12 pounds and then I was like 15. Interesting. Volume and pressure, they’re all interrelated. So if the temperature goes up, you get a constant

Chris Collard (01:11:35.164)

And I’m like, I can feel it. It started bouncing off of stuff instead of the tire just marshmallowing into an obstacle. And sure enough, people get out and they’re just like, holy crap, I have no idea. I erred down to 12 pounds and then I was at 15. That’s temperature, volume and pressure. They’re all interrelated. So as the temperature goes up, you get a constant pressure, you’re going to, or a constant volume, you’re going to have an increased pressure. So it’s just a little stuff like that. You know?

Andrew (01:11:57.936)

and volume you’re getting in having increased pressure. So just little stuff like that. Chris where can people find your work and contact you if they’re looking for any magazines publications out there looking for articles where can they contact you? So I’m embarrassed to say this Andrew but

Chris Collard (01:12:14.865)

So, I’m embarrassed to say this, Andrew, but I have a website that I haven’t touched in probably 13 years. It’s horrible. People say that they find it and I’m like, oh gosh. It really needs to be updated. My website is adventurearchitects.com. And that’s my email too, chris at adventurearchitects.com.

Andrew (01:12:20.15)

I have a website that I haven’t touched in probably 13 years. It’s horrible. People say that they find it and I’m like, oh gosh. I’m like, it really needs to be updated. My website is, is adventurearchitects.com.

And that’s my email to Chris at adventurearticakes.com. Okay. And yeah, I brag about my it’s on my to do list to recreate a new website and kind of updated with things I’ve done in the last 13 or 14 years. Yeah, you should use that picture you’ve used on LinkedIn. That’s a good starter. That LinkedIn with a Russian plane. Yeah, that would that be that’d be a good lead picture. Yeah, well, thank you.

Chris Collard (01:12:40.173)

And yeah, I brag about my it’s on my to-do list to recreate a new website and kind of update it with things I’ve done in the last 13 or 14 years But haven’t got there yet

Chris Collard (01:12:54.44)

Yes, thank you. Yeah.

Chris Collard (01:13:01.28)

Yeah, well thank you. I do, I work with Australia 4×4, have for about, gosh, almost 20 years now. And also we’ve been at Jeep Action Magazine in Australia, all the US publications. And really people can kind of Google Chris Collard and they’ll either get a kickboxer or they’ll find me or a doctor in England.

Andrew (01:13:03.89)

I do, I work with Australia 4×4 for about half almost 20 years now. Okay.

and also we’ve been at Cheap Bash Magazine Australia, all the US publications and really people can kind of google Chris Collard and they’ll either get a kickboxer or they’ll find me. All right, fantastic. Those of you listening and watching, I will put Chris’s details in the description in the video stroke podcast feed so you can find him. Chris, it’s been a pleasure.

for your time.

Chris Collard (01:13:44.468)

Yeah, awesome. Now I appreciate that you reach out to me and this is super fun. I hope we didn’t bore any of your listeners too much. Now that they know how to get a hold of me, they can like throw a digital tomato.

Andrew (01:13:46.014)

Yeah, awesome. I appreciate that you reached out to me and this is super fun. Hope we didn’t bore any of your listeners too much. They know how to get a hold of me. They can like throw a digital tomato. All right. Nice chatting to you. Thank you again, Chris.

Chris Collard (01:14:07.912)

All right, cheers. Hope to see you again soon.

end